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[04.05.06] America-2005: New York City
[11.01.06] America-2005: California
[27.12.04] Herr Klyagin vs. domnul Klyagin
[03.08.04] Danube tales
[03.06.04] spring in Moldova
  [04.04.04] gawk's notes on Crimea
[20.12.03] New Year toast
[24.11.03] negatives, positives and landscapes
[26.10.03] payment systems akbar
[23.10.03] referendum dot ro
  [ archive .. ]
20 Aug 2002 :: Several days ago, before going to bed I was reading a book by Lev Novozhenov "Anthology of satire and humour in Russia of the XX century" which I bought in Kharkov before leaving... [ more.. ]

31 May 2002 :: I think everyone has already heard about Redhat 7.3 - a new version of the popular Linux distribution. Since ISO images are available for downloading at the vendor's ftp (it cannot be other way), the next day our sysadmin burned 3 CDs for me... [ more.. ]

10 Jul 2001 :: Needed to scan some papers today, and took several photos along. So now in the "photos" section. you will find two photos from my birthday, one from my trip to Israel this winter and the recent passport photo. But remember, not everybody is born to be a photo-model :) ).. [ more.. ]

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as about www.planetamoldova.org it is group that specially lough at the russification of the language, in real life they do not speak so...

07.11.2004 17:40 Richard Starkenberg
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12.06.2004 19:01 Mario
Konst, I've already said that this discussion is futile. However, I must say several things about how developed was Russian empire at the beginning of XIX-th century. You prove again an anecdotical understanding of terms (see the ridiculous and pompous wanna-belief with the pan-european rouble which reminds me how a lot of countries have a different "inventor of aeronautics"...). Obviously, it's your right to believe that a feudal country as Russia at that moment was developed (confusing development with power based on brute force and superficial bursts of grandeur) as it is your right to believe that the efforts of some emperors to modernize the empire succeeded. However, you should be a bit more careful when trying to sell this self-deceiving opinions to people coming from Eastern Europe countries. In Romanian there is a good onomatopoeic term, "heirupism", related to the stalinist "Stakhanovism". Also there is an expression, "forme fara fond". These describe very well the presence of a city like St. Petersburg on the territory of a primitive country. The same applies to Regulamentele Organice introduced by Russians in the very primitive Romanian principalities. You must understand that the development of a country is not the same thing with the presence of enlightened dictator who may build a university in a swamp and royally pay some big heads to teach there. At the beginning of the XIX-th century in the really developed countries - like England and France - there was an already solid class of urban entrepreneurs - the incumbent bourgeoisie with a political program and an influential philosophy - practically inexistent in Eastern Europe. The efficiency of the system instated by this middle-class determines the level of economical (and partially cultural) development of a country. Not the artificial import of ideas and material goods meant to show off so common in Eastern Europe. The epoch of Enlightment - with its effects in the masses - lead to the development of these countries, not the ambition of a king. Development is a natural evolution in the details of the society. Indeed, it can be sustained by a politics of incentives, but it cannot be substituted by a macrotransfer of "forme fara fond" - shells devoid of content. Actually, this is similar with what happened at the beginnings of most communist regimes: they invested heavily into industry and for years reported incredible growth rates. It happened in USSR after the revolution as it happened in Romania in the 60-s. However, the respective efforts were in vain, not being backed by mechanisms suitable to perpetuate the respective wealth.

As for the existence of a dialect in RM, I proved my point and you must be the victim of the same self-deceiving comfort if you really believe that you proved yours...


12.06.2004 01:54 Mario
Konst, I've already told you that we should forget about it since obviously we fall on different eigenvalues. Nevertheless, the pump with the Russian empire which was sooo developed (powerful yes, but developed? let's be serious) made me smile... Anyhow, again you didn't get my point: any colonization stinks when it takes place on stolen land. I compared your thinking with propaganda when you came up with the childish argument like "what about Roman colonization of Dacia" in order to mild down the ugliness of Russian intrusion in Basarabia. Of course, as a Russian, you are all in your rights to be proud of whatever brought your people on foreign territory, but don't ask the locals to buy your justifications, even if the locals may not be angels themselves. As I said, evil is evil.

Yes, part of the specificity of the vernacular spoken in RM stays in the existence of the so called "calcuri rusesti". Some people use them, some don't, depending on the proficiency in Romanian which, by the way, has nothing to do with the proficiency in Russian. In fact, those speaking better Romanian in general speak better Russian than your "Moldavian" speakers... The use of these Russian patterns is less and less frequent (you should've heard them 10 years ago) due to the lesser occurrence in the mass media in Romanian as well as the institutional effort of cleaning the language and standard terminology (see, e.g., http://cnt.dnt.md/). I've already told you (or have I?) that moldovans from countryside use Russian terms almost exclusively for technical terminology. Anyway, your dart with "library of the Romanian Senate" is pointless. Equally uncalled is the theory with the Russian style diminutives which has nothing to do with the existence of a dialect.

Say you: "One can write a dictionary of such words and expressions, and they are surely used by the majority. There are no individuals I met who used a half of them and the rest in Romanian spoken in Romania or a quarter, or another way that would prove that it's individual and used partly by everyone. Also, people who use it may be very poor Russian speakers. The same way, noone used "moloko" for "lapte" or "dom" for "casa". Such features form a dialect, according to its definition, no matter you want it to be so or not." Let's be serious, Konst. I've told you that I know how they speak: there is a limited number of words which are replaced, usually colloquial expressions with a more or less relation to the group dynamics. All of them are adapted to the standard Romanian grammar (the Russian patterns are semantic errors, not syntactic) and occur with different frequency depending on the individual, on the social and professional strata and on geography. Otherwise, is evident that kernel words won't be replaced. What's less evident though, is how you can believe that you really brought about a valid argument for the existence of a dialect...

I don't understand why my whatabouts are necessary but whatever... At this moment I'm working as a physicist in an american university but, besides Physics, I also graduated (among the first in my year) from Universitatea din Bucuresti, Facultatea de Litere, (Romanian and Italian) with Dr. Oana Cristea. Instead of being so sure about other things, I invite you to be sure that, even if I chose to go with my other passion, my scholar competence in talking about languages is no less important and documented... As far as discussing about politics, suffice to say that, as a hobby, I made a habit out of reading around before making up my mind about things. Up now, this is not your case.

konst: This discussion became absolutely boring and pointless, so this is my last comment. Speaking about the Russian Empire, unlike you, I prefer not to judge depending on what nation I belong to. I never wrote on behalf of Russians and I do see many faults in our history. However, this doesn't mean that you're right about the Russian Empire not being a developed state. Proven facts are that the great German philosopher by the name of Kant dreamed of working at St. Petersburg university (which means education) and there were ideas of the all-European currency (sic! back in XIX century), which was, surprise again, the gold Russian rouble. I guess this also meant quite an efficient economy. Did your habit of reading good books (which I lack, according to you) let you know these? I also sincerely doubt that Romania had such results in that period (in case you give it as an example of a really sooo developed country). You may also remember the guy who assisted at ellaboration of the first constitution of Romania. A hint. One of the parks in Bucharest downtown is named after him. Try getting more books. Whatever. It must be difficult to analyze being that biassed.

Obivously the Romans stole the land too when they annexed Dacia to their Empire and imposed their language on the locals. Still no difference. I only wanted to say that not every colonization is stinky as you tried to claim. About 2000 years ago such a "stinky" stuff (quoting you, again) formed a new culture and a nation.

It's also a shame not to know what the word "dialect" means when you have a degree in linguistics. Dixi.

11.06.2004 03:38 Mario
Konst, let's forget about it! Obviously, there is little communication between us. For instance, the thing with soviet colonization versus the Roman one. What I was saying is that pointing to an evil to justify another is just propaganda, giving as an example the soviet habit of talking about criminal behavior in american history to cover up for the ongoing crimes against their own population. Evil is evil and the right reaction is repenting the sins, not pointing fingers to the misdeeds of the other, mostly when the other does not deny the respective misdeeds. Puzzling enough, you chose to understand that I doubt the genocide against the native americans... Likewise, you think that I consider PPCD ridiculous, while I was referring as such to "your hint" about me visiting this party. This proves a lot about the futility of this discussion.

And inter alia, sorry Konst, but the Russian occupation and the destruction it brought in Eastern Europe in modern times managed to be more pervert than the Roman behavior. At least the Romans wouldn't have denied that their method was easy on killing the disobedients. 2000 years later on, at a time when one would've expected a better judgment, soviet system invaded half of Europe mixing promises of happiness with a sort of barbarism that would've made the Romans blush...

For Mike: as I explained above, what Konst considers to be a dialect is just an artificial mixture of Romanian with Russian words (inserted more or less arbitrarily) practiced by bilingual individuals with a poor control upon their native idiom. The Russian load of what Konst calls "Moldavian" language is inversely proportional to the ability of the speaker to speak standard Romanian. If you insist to call this practice "dialect", then in RM there are as many "dialects" as the number of levels of inadequacy with respect to the revival of national consciousness. Each group belonging to a postcolonial nuance would speak its own "dialect" varying between the completely russified groups to the speakers of standard Romanian. This last group contains not only the more educated ethnic Romanian population, but also the rural population amongst which the linguistic Russian influence is much more limited. Consequently, Konst's model of "dialect" is just an artificial idea meant to cover the sad reality of a denationalization process with varying degrees of completion.

konst: I didn't mean Soviet propaganda and occupation. Talking about the land of Basarabia, as far as I know, it was colonized much earlier. In the beginning of the XIX centry, as far as I know. There obviously was no Soviet Unioin, but the Russian Empire, one of the most powerful and developed countries of Europe. I wonder why you call that colonization stinky, if locals compared to Russian population weren't even recruited to the army and taken as serfs. Which means they were treated even better than the majority of the Empire's population. I may not know much, but these are things I read in quite serious sources, and that cannot be Soviet propaganda, because it generally denied the developments of the monarchy epoch. Keep in mind I didn't mention Eastern Europe after the WW2 and the USSR. I'm not an advocate of the Union and its actions, for I never said I liked it. Moreover, I never did.

As to the dialect, for some reason all people I heared were using more or less similar words and expressions. "te aranjeaza?" which is a direct translation of the Russian construction, "a se opredeli" instead of "a se detecta", "privet" instead of "salut", etc. Plus many technical things, for which terminology comes from Russian and diminutives for surnames, like Nicolae - Colea or Leonid - Lionea. Noone used the actual Romanian analogues instead of these. One can write a dictionary of such words and expressions, and they are surely used by the majority. There are no individuals I met who used a half of them and the rest in Romanian spoken in Romania or a quarter, or another way that would prove that it's individual and used partly by everyone. Also, people who use it may be very poor Russian speakers. The same way, noone used "moloko" for "lapte" or "dom" for "casa". Such features form a dialect, according to its definition, no matter you want it to be so or not.

How come the rurals have the same Romanian while their language developed isolated as well as that of the urban population? How do they call those new things that appeared during that period? Let me guess. They had access to the library of the Romanian Senate ;)

PS: You didn't tell anything about your profession. Not even a hint, but I'm pretty sure it's far away from politics and linguistics.

10.06.2004 14:59 Mike the representative
Well, another bright idea just visited me :) There surely exist "Canadian English" - likewise, there undoubtedly exist "Moldavian Romanian". Not a slang, but a dialect, because it's a way of speaking of the nation.

10.06.2004 14:40 Mike the representative
If I can.. You guys seem to confuse with two apparently different things - language and way of speaking. Yes, a normal adult romanian, in stable mental condition, would hardly get even a half of information circulating over the moldovan students drink session somewhere in university campus on Vinogradnaya st. Exactly in the same manner, an average white anglo-saxon protestant (not a linguist, without major disorders) would have no idea what those funny creol guys are dreaming about at their english-speaking party somewhere in Georgetown.. Does it mean that there are two different languages in States and Guyana ? - I bet it does not.. May I propose a criteria - two languages are the same language when there's no (and there's no need for) dictionaries between them - agree ? PS. Politics's shit - fuck it.

10.06.2004 02:52 Mario
You should try to control a bit your para-argument based on how much you know RM since you visited the place. The barbaric slang you like to call "Moldavian" (as well as the specific accent) is mainly an (sub-)urban phenomenon. In rural regions, the vernacular is much less degraded and one can barely make a difference between a peasant from Iasi and one from Ungheni. What places I visited in RM is an irrelevant detail, and doesn't change a bit the seriousness of my documentation regarding that place. It's almost frivolous to comment on your impression that raiding several bars with a bunch of fellow ketmen may give you a better idea about the linguistic realities in RM. And, by the way, you haven't answered my question: how do you think they would react if you told them that their slang is the language of Moldavians? Also, out of respect for you, I won't comment on the awkward argument with the Russian versus Roman colonization... It reminds me of soviet propaganda obsessed with how capitalists killed the american indians.

Moreover, you should let me know already what kind of sites with an alternative point of view you'd like me to visit... Make sure that, among these sites, you mention at least one written in "Moldavian": perhaps some news or some literature in this "language". Reproduce some folklore in this language (possibly created outside jail or soviet army). Obviously, being a language, not slang, it should have a grammar distinct from Romanian, a normative set of rules and a class of administrative users capable of promoting it in a coherent form. In this case, some smart and romantic Moldavian speaker (because there are smart "Moldavian" speakers, aren't there??) must've put together the wonderful sounds of two cultures in at least one or two poems... There must be at least one or two sites "only in Moldavian" where russified patterns and expressions are mandatory and Romanians like myself should feel like T. Blair on Isle of Man not like Blair in London's East End. There must be some "Moldavian speakers" so proud of their "language" to bring about an Academy or a literary club called, for instance, "Patzanii nostri podazritelino, blea" (excuse my Moldavian). There must be at least one or two Moldavians capable of using the respective language in other situations, besides swearing on the bus, gang talking, blabbing over a beer or as the natural expression of a drunken delirium.

Otherwise, what more can I say: perhaps that I don't have any connection whatsoever with PPCD. This ridiculous hint of yours is from the same class of failed ironies as your final farting joke of a doubtful taste. I'm telling you again, you don't know squat about the political situation in RM as you know nil about linguistics - this is sufficiently proved by your insistence in placing a name on the lingo of a subclass of postcolonial linguistic inadequacies. Also, your idea that replacing several words in a language is sufficient to transform it into a dialect, is far from pleading for your competence. Let me try to explain you again, I guess for the last time since I'm kind of bored. What you dubbed "Moldavian" language (based on the nefarious reason that you've heard people using it, et cosi sia) cannot be considered a language. It is an colloquial mixture of Romanian and Russian practiced by people with poor cultural consistency. With few exceptions, the words are just replaced, not molded into the texture of a equivocal linguistic construct: i.e. the logic of substituting the Romanian words with adapted Russian ones is not intrinsic but based on confusion and arbitrariness. Thus, different speakers will use Russian words depending on their lack of proficiency in literary Romanian and/or stemming from the group comfort. The frequency of certain replacements will vary depending on the location in the country, from person to person, inside the same group and even for the same individual adapting to the social context. This is a rather typical result of a perverted bilingualism where the second language is imposed upon a weak control upon the first. Anyways, this admixture does not survive due to some kind of stand alone virtues, but due to societal pressure and individual difficulties. The solution to this problem is bringing the influence of Russian in RM to a size more adequate to the mere 12% Russian population in this country.

konst: First, why do you take so serious my impression of visiting several bars? Doesn't it look like fighting windmills to you? I say it again, that I didn't call it the official language and there are no news-papers or other information sources in it, as far as I know. The notion of "Moldavian language" I used was to specify the dialect. Again, DIALECT, not a language. It would had been too long to write "the dialect of the Romanian language spoken in the Republic of Moldova" just to please you, don't you see? But if you say there is no even a dialect, I don't know what to reply. Did you read the definition of the word? Actually I wonder what's your profession. Mine is known, tell me about yours. I guess that apart from being a professional political analyst you're also a linguist, aren't you?

As to reaction of calling the dialect Moldavian, I'm pretty sure there will be people who agree and those who will not. That's obvious. It's also obvious that from your extreme point of view you consider the former handicapped and the latter super-conscious. Up to you. But my guess is that if they considered their slang miserable they wouldn't use it at all.

I see no reason for not commenting the colonisation comparison I told you about. Both were colonisations, now what? Let me guess, the former was "good", but the latter was "bad", right? Black'n'white. Yes, I'm a telepath.

As to the Indians, I'm afraid it's not only the Soviet propaganda. I am not a fan of any propaganda (except mine, of course) and I don't know how it was in America, but it's a proven fact that in Australia the Aborigines were hunted with dogs and horses like they were wild animals. Though I dunno why you touched this one in this boring politicized discussion, which you seem to like, judging from the fact you write so much every time.

Finally, myself I don't think that the PPCD is ridiculous, and I have no idea why you do. The farting joke (the example could be about flowers with the same sense), it was just about your way to see politics in everything, if it wasn't clear the last time.

07.06.2004 00:00 Mario
Hey, Konst! What exactly makes you think I haven't visited Basarabia. Actually I have visited it, in order to study exactly the kind of problems we hardly discuss here... Could you be so nice to indicate me the sites promoting an opposite point of view you would like me to visit? Would you please try to sell your ideas about "Moldavian language" on a moldovan forum in Romanian... Please let me know about the reaction you get. You may not like it! And, as a decent guy you seem to be, you may not like those who agree with you...

If they speak as you say, your friends are hardly educated or they don't care because you are a Russian - that's simply disrespecting themselves by indulging you - a postcolonial sindrom (a transferred form of inferiority complex) well known when it comes to facing representats of the former oppressors. Moreover, talking over a beer is not exactly an "elevated" occasion and I doubt they'd be very happy if you told them how you consider the miserable slang they use the actual language of moldovans... How many times I have to tell you that I do not deny that most of the people in that country don't speak correctly any language in every day life? Whatever you try to define as a language is just a poorly digested compilation of Romanian and Russian. A medieval prince - Dimitrie Cantemir - would've called it "o struto-camila"... Evidently, given another several decades of Russian cultural domination, supression and manipulation of local identity and prevention of Romanian influences, it could transform into a language by affecting its grammar and internal logic. Fortunately, at this moment, such a future is hardly foreseeable.

I don't understand where you got the idea that I have something against the word "Moldavia" (I guess it's from a discussion you've had with somebody else). My concern is with you not calling it Romanian albeit distorted in its vernacular form by Russian implants as in Romania it is distorted by slang and dialectal variations.

In other order of ideas, perhaps you should clearify for yourself the notion of "dialect". The dialects of Romanian are south of Danube. Within Romania plus Basarabia, the regional differences can not classified as dialects. Otherwise, the Romanian you learnt in Iasi would be incomprehensible in Bucharest as the local dialect from Calabria is incomprehensible in Torino and the germans from Bavaria cannot understand the locals from Lbeck.

konst: Good to know you've been there. May I ask you which localities you visited? I'm also curious if among the sites you visited there were others than the office of the Chistian-Democrat party :) As to forums, I had colleagues at a couple of companies who wasted a lot of time every day writing messages on forums. Instead of working, obviously. Generally they liked to discuss politics and other subjects they were absolutely uncompetent at. When it came to software development, they seemed not to posess that much knowledge :) Anyway, I don't like forums and prefer being into something more useful.

You also seem not to like colonisation in any form having called it stinky in one of your previous posts. Thus, I expect you to call the Roman colonisation of the actual territory of Romania stinky too. The guys from Basarabia I mentioned didn't talk to me in Moldavian. With me they usually speak Russian, but when it comes to talking between them or to some of their compatriots, they do use the dialect I described, which sometimes can be hardly comprehended by speakers of Romanian. I do consider it an actual language because they do speak so. No politics involved, again. I don't care what happened and what extreme points of view on it can exist. But there is a dialect, there are people who talk it, and frankly speaking, I like it, because it combines two cultures I like. Just to clarify the notion of dialect, follow this link: http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=dialect&x=0&y=0. We are not talking about the differences between the language spoken in Iasi and Bucharest, but, let's say, between Chisinau/Cahul and Iasi/Bucharest. Listening to the two ways of talking for at least 5 minutes would reveal the difference. It looks obvious to me.

Least but not last. I won't be surprized if tomorrow I write a phrase like "I farted" on the site and the next day I find a comment from you saying I touched a sensible territory and made a political statement ;)

06.06.2004 19:44 Mario
And I repeat my initial observation: calling the weird lingo "Moldavian language" you are making a political statement. The people you're talking about are poorly educated people, subject to irony and taken as example for the problems with largely russified TV broadcasting in RM. Your logic with them is tantamount to that inept theory that corectness is subjective: i.e., an argotic speech has the same normative quality as the standard. Moreover, most of the times, using russian expressions is sort of a more or less conscious self deprecating practice and depends on the audience: they wouldn't speak like that in an environment considered as more elevated. And I'm telling you again that that's no trend: the trend is to clean up the language due to better schooling and press in Romanian. Go on www.moldova.net and check out the real climat among the youth from RM. You may find some of the people clowning out on www.planetamoldova.org trying to wash out their act when under scrutiny.

Concerning the communists in RM: you should ask around about how much they are worth of respect. Also you should ask about the "majority" which elected them and why this in fact minority managed to win. Again, you don't know anything about the political situation in RM so hai s-o lasam balta!

konst: There is an existing notation of the Moldavian language, no matter how and where it appeared. That's why I used it to distinquish the dialect. If you don't like the Russian word "Moldavia", consult the French dictionary, which calls it "Moldavie".

Next, www.planetamoldova.org is not a joke. I strongly insist that's the real language spoken in cities and villages of the Republic of Moldova, for I heared it with my own ears. You are not likely to know that, because I'm quite sure you haven't ever been there. My friends from the RM are educated youth, which I also consider to be quite elevated, and they really are. Having university degree proves it, doesn't it? They speak exactly this way. Again, my advice for you is that you go there and check the real climate.

I'm not a political analyst myself (you neither, as I'm pretty sure about), but I do know from the university course of the Constitution that the right of the majority to elect the government is one of the basic principles of the democracy. Not knowing that doesn't make you informed well about the political situation in any country. Please visit the country or visit web sites that represent other points of view, different from yours. That can be a very educative experience.

06.06.2004 07:13 Mario
Konst, you've gotta be kiddn' me! You really think I'd be interested in Basarabia just because I read about it over coffee in the frickin' San Obisbo Tribune? I may not be from that region, (Im from Romania) but you bet I know how they speak and I reckon that I've got a much better idea than you about why their Romanian is as it is... In fact, your theory reminds me of an old story with a brilliant Russian physicist, known by the name Gamow, from the golden years of quantum mechanics. Well, this guys English so totally sucked that his colleagues used to call it Gamowian. Similarly, you like to call Moldavian the sad result of some peoples poor proficiency in their own language You conveniently wash out the mechanisms of denationalization and russification which lead to the stupid situation where an entire population doesnt speak correctly either language. Moreover, how cynical can you be to ask me for respect for communists! Respect for the ideology which ruined my family, my country and irreversibly destroyed the sense of societal decency of my fellow countrymen??? Konst, do you have any idea about the level of idiocy at the highest level in RM? Im not talking about politics here; its about stupidity in its purest form RM at this moment is lead by simpleton Russians born all over former USSR and locals who can barely put together two words in their own language, let alone to spell them. Do you have any idea why the communists were elected and by whom? Do you have any idea about the postcolonial sociology and the fragility of a population systematically stripped of their national identity with tremendous effects at individual level?

And please, stop putting Russian on the same foot with other foreign languages in the non-russian areas of former USSR. Dont demean yourself by calling up this kind of ridiculous arguments. It just spells out your ignorance No stinkin colonialism obliged Romanians to use English or French words. If you really want to get an idea about how enthusiast wouldve been the ethnic Romanians in Basarabia to learn Russian, ask around in Romania how much they like Russian Check up Romanian language spoken in Romania! Most of the words with slavic origin came via south slavic channels. The Russian borrowings are extremely few and thats the natural amount of Russian influence accepted by Romanian. Compare with the situation in Basarabia and you may get an idea about the difference between a natural absorption of terms and a forced one.

Please, Konst, I kinda like you, your site and everything, but stop talking about things you dont know anything about. Or at least try to appear less convinced when you obviously divagate. Otherwise you may inadvertently hurt people.

konst: I repeat it again. It is not about politics, it's about real-life observations. Please go to www.planetamoldova.org and listen to their language, count Russian words they use in their Romanian, if you have something against speaking to real "incorrectly-polluted-speaking" people IRL. I don't care what was russificated there and how it happened. Instead, I just observe the current trends and write about them the way I like. As to the communists, there is no way I asked you to have respect to the communists (myself I dislike the ideology too), but they were _elected_ by the _people_ of the Republic of Moldova. That was their choice. So please, respect the people from there and their right to vote whoever they want. That's it.

05.06.2004 21:54 Mario
Conveniently enough, in the most recent issue of "Contrafort" you can read "Un studiu despre avatarurile limbii romne n Basarabia". See www.contrafort.md.

05.06.2004 21:28 Mario
Hey, Konst. Sorry, but your comments on "Moldavian language" vs. Romanian stop short from being blatantly stupid. For a rather observant guy, you tend to be excessively decisive when divagating on things you don't know anything about. You know this is a sensitive territory and still you venture into blabbing around about it. Obviously, there is no such thing as "limba moldoveneasca" and one who apparently wants to avoid political hissy fits should never use this barbarism. You seem to believe that Romanian polluted in RM with Russian expressions can be/should be/is to be called "Moldavian"... Let's try to clarify several things in order to induce a bit of prudence in your future comments Indeed, any colonial influence upon a language alters it, sometimes beyond recognition. However, this was not the case in the part of Moldova occupied by the Russian empire. The respective republic was a colony and was treated as a colony but, since the local culture was practically suppressed in the soviet period by the exile of intellectuals (in Romania) and massive deportations in Siberia, the specifics of local identity were rather minor (or rural and parochial) so that Russian didnt have a major lingo, a literary language to alter. Russian was the language considered as normal at administrative level, while the local language was at most considered as a matter of folkloric exotics worth of propagandistic manipulations. Initially, to further split the area from the Romanian mainstream, the soviets tried to impose upon this minor cultural background an artificial linguistic addenda based on the very primitive dialect from the ethnically mixed Transnistria an area devoid of any Romanian cultural influences. This project damped into mockery and, later on, the denationalization attempts became more subtle: the Romanian language was taken as is, transferred into the Cyrillic alphabet and baptized Moldavian Romanian writers from XIX-th century were simply declared ethnic Moldavians (as opposed to Romanians), classics of Moldavian literature, their writings being chopped off and sometimes even translated using ridiculous archaisms when some expressions may have sounded too Romanian. It was one of those aberrant exercises of double thinking so common under communist regimes: it simply didnt count that the respective writers had been actors in the Romanian nationbuilding and sometimes even excessive in their Romanian nationalism. It didnt count that what the soviets called Moldavian language is word by word Romanian, language which didnt appear and develop on the territory of RSSM. Meanwhile, Romanian books were interdicted in RSSM and whatever collections in Latin alphabet they had in the libraries were placed under controlled access . To buy a Romanian books (gesture considered as a political statement) people had to travel outside RSSM. So, the Romanian language survived in RSSM via the new intellectual class (a subversive bunch) in a twisted form under the name of Moldavian language, even though everybody knew that it is Romanian. Meanwhile, at a day-by-day level, Russian was in everything: technical terminology had to be Russian since Romanian technical books were inaccessible, word denoting new concepts and modern hardware were adapted from Russian following the Russian philosophy of forming new words strange for Romanians Slang, teenager lingo, customized syntagma were altogether influenced by the cultural framework common in USSR tending to transform homo sovieticus into a generalized expression of Russian hegemony. However, any educated person knew that using the Russian patterns forced onto the language used by the commoners was a sign of stupidity and simple-mindedness. At this moment, in RM only communists and uneducated people use the expression limba moldoveneasca and only as a political handle in their anti-Romanian phobia inherited from their soviet genealogy. Nevertheless, the general trend is to eliminate the Russian elements as rejected implants. Obviously, Russian is still extremely influent (due to the bankrupt linguistic policy which makes possible a more subtle russification through mass-media) but no decent people will be forced to pretend that the emperor is not naked, or Moldovan is not Romanian, for ideological purposes. For study: here are a couple of journals from RM: www.contrafort.md, www.sud-est.md, www.jurnal.md, www.timpul.md. Let me know if you can spot some differences with respect to Romanian. On the other hand, related to inacceptabilele calcuri rusesti care polueaza romana vorbita in Republica Moldova, here is a discussion on a forum from RM: http://moldova.net/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=43fe2b22dc52664ec5c3cf1696d4764b. If the address doesnt work, follow www.moldova.net -> "Ciuleandra". Read "Rusisme" or "Calcuri rusesti si greseli de exprimare". Try to be more careful!
konst: Ok, just to be short and to clarify my point. Have you ever heared people from Basarabia speak? Don't you consider polluation those tons of words taken from English and French into the modern Romanian language? I don't care about politics, I just like observing some languages and dialects. You know, sometimes the reality is not what you want it to be. As to the current government of Moldova being communist, that's the choice of the people, so consider having more respect to them.


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